tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2241950500211730661.post1322227825255260571..comments2024-01-18T05:22:44.503-05:00Comments on Duke Newt: Wrede helped invent "the community"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2241950500211730661.post-24226081903745233912010-02-06T09:07:42.329-05:002010-02-06T09:07:42.329-05:00Thanks Peter, this is illuminating, especially the...Thanks Peter, this is illuminating, especially the last two.Nathan Eubankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13930202683520173941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2241950500211730661.post-86705285754884214342010-02-05T18:04:05.609-05:002010-02-05T18:04:05.609-05:00I think there is something in that Stephen. Owen i...I think there is something in that Stephen. Owen in fact is more interested in their setting in time and relative chronology than anything else - he certainly doesn't think o the evangelists as isolated/sectarian writers. I think perhaps his emphasis on the situational nature of the gospel texts and his advocacy of a comparative approach to synoptic relations does go way beyond the patristic testimonies. <br /><br />Two more quotes:<br /><br />"IN PENNING THEIR GOSPELS, THE SACRED HISTORIANS HAD A CONSTANT REGARD, AS WELL TO THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE PERSONS, FOR WHOSE USE THEY WROTE: AS TO THE SEVERAL PARTICULARS OF CHRIST'S LIFE, WHICH THEY WERE THEN WRITING(P15)"<br /><br />The gospels were "modelled ... to the state, temper, and disposition of the times in which they were written" (p16).Peter M. Headhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03379103292621457026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2241950500211730661.post-60696188627253077422010-02-05T12:35:02.995-05:002010-02-05T12:35:02.995-05:00I'd say that Owen is more similar to the some ...I'd say that Owen is more similar to the some of the patristic writer in that he was looking at larger regions (e.g. "Churches in Palestine"), whereas Wrede and modern commentators seem to focus more on the local church or community.Stephen C. Carlsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18239379955876245197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2241950500211730661.post-91221134368999877332010-02-05T10:13:33.336-05:002010-02-05T10:13:33.336-05:00Interesting that Owen connects this especially wit...Interesting that Owen connects this especially with Eusebius: "we have four Gospels: all of them composed, as Eusebius observes, on special and urgent occasions. (Hist. Eccl. iii,c.24)"<br />This obviously connects with Margaret Mitchell's response to Richard Bauckham on the patristic perspectives on the settings of the gospels.Peter M. Headhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03379103292621457026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2241950500211730661.post-37803989477016569962010-02-05T10:11:17.287-05:002010-02-05T10:11:17.287-05:00E.g.: "St. Matthew wrote his Gospel for the u...E.g.: "St. Matthew wrote his Gospel for the use of the Churches in Palestine, then composed of Jewish converts, and adapted it to the condition of the times, and the nature of their circumstances. ... When the Gentiles were admitted into the Christian Church, St. Luke, as the exigencies of their state required, strengthened their faith by another Gospel, accommodated to their special use."<br />H. Owen, Observations on the Four Gospels; Tending chiefly to ascertain the Times of their Publication; and to illustrate the Form and Manner of their Composition (London, 1764), 106f.Peter M. Headhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03379103292621457026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2241950500211730661.post-23024930064587108202010-02-04T19:25:53.258-05:002010-02-04T19:25:53.258-05:00Peter - fantastic! could you point us to the refer...Peter - fantastic! could you point us to the reference? I would like to look that up. <br /><br />Mr. Kirk: good to hear from you.Nathan Eubankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13930202683520173941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2241950500211730661.post-2077371448385398742010-02-04T12:37:35.870-05:002010-02-04T12:37:35.870-05:00Instead of saying something substantive as part of...Instead of saying something substantive as part of this conversation, I'll just cast my vote for "credit" rather than "blame".J. R. Daniel Kirkhttp://jrdkirk.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2241950500211730661.post-15291432712940642352010-02-04T11:41:01.052-05:002010-02-04T11:41:01.052-05:00Henry Owen in 1764 made a similar argument.Henry Owen in 1764 made a similar argument.Peter M. Headhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03379103292621457026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2241950500211730661.post-37758608311092257052010-02-03T22:36:25.751-05:002010-02-03T22:36:25.751-05:00good question.
I should mention, since you provi...good question. <br /><br />I should mention, since you provided the German, that I tweaked the published translation a bit in light of the original.Nathan Eubankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13930202683520173941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2241950500211730661.post-86711788876089903662010-02-03T22:03:05.508-05:002010-02-03T22:03:05.508-05:00The German is: "Das Bewusstsein, dass ich Da...The German is: "Das Bewusstsein, dass ich Darstellungen vor mir habe, deren Autoren spätere -- wenn auch noch so frühe -- Christen sind, Christen, die das Leben Jesu nur mit den Augen ihrer Zeit ansehen konnten, <i>die es aus dem Glauben der Gemeinde, mit allen Anschauungen der Gemeinde, für die Bedürfnisse der Gemeinde beschrieben</i> -- dies Bewusstsein darf mich keinen Augenblick verlassen." (emphasis as Nathan's)<br /><br />The key word here is <i>Gemeinde</i>, "community" or "(local) church." I wonder why English-language scholarship would go on to prefer "community" over "church" (as it did by the time of the 1971 translation of Wrede).Stephen C. Carlsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18239379955876245197noreply@blogger.com